jack1974
Jun 06, 2016
http://www.powergaymers.com/heirs-graces-review/
haha the reviewer didn't like the character art of this game either! Though personally I thought was well done. But of course that's just the first person that said didn't like it, so very different from PSCD where I got a LOT of complaints about the art instead.
Anyway, I don't think it's my best game to date (overall), but glad to see that the writing was praised since I think has a very good story/characters.
Also glad that this writer is going to work for me on a RPG in future... oops, this is a secret, ignore it...
Harbinger1975
Jun 06, 2016
Reviewers are picky and review games that aren't in their "genre pool". Honestly, Jack, I would ignore reviewers. The only 'reviews' that matter are the ones from your loyal customers.
jack1974
Jun 06, 2016
No, no I know, I wasn't being polemic! I was just surprised since while I have to say that now I can see the "uncanney valley" effect of PSCD, for this game the sprites I thought they were well done. Maybe most people are used to cell-shading and cute manga stuff, since for example everyone loved C14 Dating art (obviously, Deji is also very good!).
But I wasn't angry or anything, just curious
Well at least the next game (Queen Of Thieves) has in my opinion a very cute art. And also hot
Jaeger
Jun 10, 2016
Everyone has certain expectations when it comes to video games. Reviews are a reflection of an individual's preferences. Personally, I think too many people either take too much stock in reviews or use them to affirm their own biases. Nevertheless, since we can't change their behavior, you can only make the best game you can and hope the publicity and sales will work in your favor.
On a related note your game is featured on Siliconera as well.
http://www.siliconera.com/2016/06/08/yaoi-visual-novel-servant-romancing-men-lords-city/
There are few negative comments about the art as well. Honestly, I do think the characters look a little stiff. On a positive note, the art quality of your more recent titles is at a higher standard than what it used to be.
jack1974
Jun 10, 2016
Ugh, I hope the artist doesn't read that, since I think could be bad to read such comments about your work. Personally, I've been insulted in every possible way, but I have my Zen way of dealing with it, also known as "I don't give a f..."
Joking, as you know I appreciate constructive critics and even insults if AT LEAST they point out something wrong in the game! Saying "art is ugly" is an opinion and very subjective IMHO, since I know a lot of people follow that artist on tumblr.
But anyway, in the end what matters it's how the game does. The game is doing well, so they can say what they want about the art, writing, gameplay, whatever!
DarkWolf
Jun 10, 2016
Well I too think that art is beneath your other games witch use similar art style (Loren, SOTW, QOT) when it comes to characters and it's true that C14 art is on completely different level but that is because art in C14 is a top class on par with high budget Japanese VNs. That said I think those people are being too harsh, then again rude people exaggerating things on internet is noting new and I don't think you will have big problem because of art as long as you don't try something like in PSCD (Real life people art style) and even then it is not definite that you will fail but it is far harder to succeed that way then to stick to what people who are into genres of your games already love (Manga/Anime and game art styles).
jack1974
Jun 10, 2016
Yup there are some people that definitely don't like "realistic art" or painted stuff. Probably it's harder to draw, so the mistakes are more apparent or something (not sure, I'm not an artist!).
But anyway now I know what to do at least. Indeed nobody is complaining about my more manga looking games (QoT, Amber, etc).
And as you said people exaggerating is nothing new on internet: one of the comments says my games are too short! Yes, sure
kadakithis
Jun 10, 2016
I think the art is great, and was really impressed with how different the two scullery maids looked when they didn't have to be. The main character's arm on hip is a bit at an awkward angle and the butler and Doctor were not as fully visually distinctive from each other as I would like, but Kamal looks phenomenal, able to make him look clever and tough, not too easy. I think she's a wonderful artist.
jack1974
Jun 11, 2016
Perhaps it is because the contrast with background is more noticeable?
Usually in games the character art is done with cell-shading, so that might be the issue some people see. I'm sure if I showed them the SOTW CGs (this artist did also the ending CG+DLC CGs), or even this game CGs, nobody could argue about the quality
mastro
Jun 11, 2016
Or maybe are just people being ass**les
I've seen a lot of angst against developers lately, in particular indies. Totally gratuitous offenses, I don't get it. Don't let this get at you (or your collaborators).
The writer Umberto Eco a while ago said about internet, that it gave any random idiot on internet the possibility to talk, even if was drunk (something like that if I remember correctly). He was right!
kadakithis
Jun 11, 2016
Probably the background does make it more noticeable, also Lord Sandor seems to have really cool detail in his face which can make the other characters look less polished in comparison. Two drawing styles can make the less detailed version stand out. I also think so many people are praising Kamal is because usually Gay Love and Boy Love genres distinguish each other visually by having more buff guys while BL have usually more slender pretty guys, Generally the former is made for gay men while the later is made for straight/Bi women. Also the site was a LGBT one who usually avoid manga art due to the vast majority of yaoi for women only.
Here's an example of the type of art found in the most recently "big" gay dating sim. It's certainly not better, but enough of a difference to create a bias against/for a type of art.
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/18/187968/2716207-comingoutontop.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
jack1974
Jun 11, 2016
Yeah I know the developer of that game. We even chatted a bit some years ago.
But basically it seems (apart what mastro said which is true, I remember that quote about internet by Eco haha) that some people seem to think that something "must be like that" (art, music, whatever) and if it's different, it's bad.
Well, at least I'm quite sure that both Queen Of Thieves and Undead Lily art will meet people's expectations
kadakithis
Jun 11, 2016
But that just explains the naysayers, it really was a great game, with good themes, a phenomenal main character, a good cast and a really wonderful plot. It's a game to really be proud of.
I love that the MC had his own motivations and depth. After romancing all 4 guys I do feel perhaps Berges and Victor were a bit too similar (two nice guys who you need to take care of because they won't take care of themselves) but the game was solid, and more than that, emotionally moving in a way none of your other games have quite reached because it's so relateable. I rarely ever get emotional over media but remembering my own father, I couldn't help but cry.
A beautiful game and a fantastic job.
jack1974
Jun 11, 2016
Cool
Yes I'm almost sad that it was a yaoi-only game, because I know many people won't play it just because of that (I cannot blame them, I wouldn't play a yaoi only game either) so they are all missing a great story. That's also why in future I'll always have at least two romance combos in a game.
DarkWolf
Jun 11, 2016
Probably the background does make it more noticeable, also Lord Sandor seems to have really cool detail in his face which can make the other characters look less polished in comparison. Two drawing styles can make the less detailed version stand out. I also think so many people are praising Kamal is because usually Gay Love and Boy Love genres distinguish each other visually by having more buff guys while BL have usually more slender pretty guys, Generally the former is made for gay men while the later is made for straight/Bi women. Also the site was a LGBT one who usually avoid manga art due to the vast majority of yaoi for women only.
Here's an example of the type of art found in the most recently "big" gay dating sim. It's certainly not better, but enough of a difference to create a bias against/for a type of art.
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/18/187968/2716207-comingoutontop.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
What you call gay love is a genre called Bara (meaning rose) and while it is true about what you said distinguish it from Yaoi/Shounen-AI/Boys-love I was always skeptic about it because it is like saying that all strait girls have a same taste and that all gay guys have a same taste.
Or maybe are just people being ass**les
I've seen a lot of angst against developers lately, in particular indies. Totally gratuitous offenses, I don't get it. Don't let this get at you (or your collaborators).
The writer Umberto Eco a while ago said about internet, that it gave any random idiot on internet the possibility to talk, even if was drunk (something like that if I remember correctly). He was right!
Well part of it is that people feel that they can have more influence on indie developers then on big companies since talking to big companies is like shouting at mountains but indie developers are often right here with us listening to what we have to say and many people misuse that.
kadakithis
Jun 11, 2016
What you call gay love is a genre called Bara (meaning rose) and while it is true about what you said distinguish it from Yaoi/Shounen-AI/Boys-love I was always skeptic about it because it is like saying that all strait girls have a same taste and that all gay guys have a same taste.
Oh obviously different people have different taste, I just mean it seems like yaoi is usually made with women in mind and Bara is usually made with men in mind and that can create an art preference, especially when one type targets you as an audience rather than another. Most gay guys I know won't touch anything labeled yaoi, because the main character is usually made to be a stand in for women and get many things wrong. Not all of them, obviously, but enough that all I have to do around them is mention seme/uke or yaoi hands to get a collective groan and an immediate rant. (Something, I might add, this game doesn't do, but people always have preconceptions)
Ryocchi
Jun 11, 2016
Probably the background does make it more noticeable, also Lord Sandor seems to have really cool detail in his face which can make the other characters look less polished in comparison. Two drawing styles can make the less detailed version stand out. I also think so many people are praising Kamal is because usually Gay Love and Boy Love genres distinguish each other visually by having more buff guys while BL have usually more slender pretty guys, Generally the former is made for gay men while the later is made for straight/Bi women. Also the site was a LGBT one who usually avoid manga art due to the vast majority of yaoi for women only.
Here's an example of the type of art found in the most recently "big" gay dating sim. It's certainly not better, but enough of a difference to create a bias against/for a type of art.
http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/18/187968/2716207-comingoutontop.jpg" style="max-width:100%">
"What you call gay love is a genre called Bara (meaning rose) and while it is true about what you said distinguish it from Yaoi/Shounen-AI/Boys-love I was always skeptic about it because it is like saying that all strait girls have a same taste and that all gay guys have a same taste."
If we go, from reviews, populariy all in all, at the end of the day that kind of art was a really REALLY big hit with both, guys and girls, also Kadakithis wasn't wrong calling it gay love, because that label includes both genres yaoi and bara on it, and this game has elements from both, anyway, as Jack said on his blog post, Undead Lily art direction is good, Love Bites is also good, and that is the important thing.
I'll buy Heirs & Graces nex weekend, but Jack already knows I have a favorite guy in that game so no worries for me. XD
jack1974
Jun 12, 2016
as Jack said on his blog post, Undead Lily art direction is good, Love Bites is also good, and that is the important thing.
Yup, I think the next 2-3 games that are out are definitely in the right direction, at least for the art
I'll buy Heirs & Graces nex weekend, but Jack already knows I have a favorite guy in that game so no worries for me. XD
Haha yes! Thank you
DarkWolf
Jun 12, 2016
also Kadakithis wasn't wrong calling it gay love, because that label includes both genres yaoi and bara on it, and this game has elements from both,
usually Gay Love and Boy Love genres distinguish each other visually by having more buff guys while BL have usually more slender pretty guys, Generally the former is made for gay men while the later is made for straight/Bi women.
Kadakithis wasn't using Gay Love as a term to label all gay genres together but as a replacement term for Bara genre.
lost_erias
Jun 14, 2016
I love this game so much that I made an account here just to tell you guys
what I thought of it.
Music is great - I adore the main screen music. The plot is so good and sad at the same time. ;_;
I cried a lot while playing this (or maybe I'm a sap and on my monthly lol) I've only played Eloy's route
including getting that 90 Decorum stat (had to replay quite a bit) but worth the silliness of the "sexy" scene.
As well as unlocked 90 Rep, Passed all main plot Skill Check and trigger Jealousy scene (many of them xD)
Even though the art was on par with the other games, I felt like it fit the story and the timeline of the game.
It felt really appropriate. Love all the references to Loren throughout the game.
I didn't expect Eloy to have so much character development and now I adore him even more~
I would love some voices but I know that its hard and would make the game more expensive.
Love this game and will go back and get through the other men's routes. As a fujoshi (yes I only got this game b/c of the yaoi tag)
this game is really deep, a bit cliche parts (but that is okay, I love it anyway) and I love how Marcel interacts with
everyone. You can really relate to him almost all the characters are likable in their own way.
