I am thinking to list Ruby/Lynn/Cosmina under "poly romances". It's not true for Ruby, but probably would piss players less if done this way? I'm not sure what to do. For me now the important thing is to clearly tell players what to expect.

Sigh I though I could resume working on Undead Lily this week, but this thing is delaying me too much



edit: OK maybe I will just list them as they are:

3 otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair)

1 yuri romance (Ruby)

2 poly romances (Lynn & Cosmina)



Lynn it's not really poly romance (since it can end as yuri) but probably people will be less pissed this way

I am thinking to list Ruby/Lynn/Cosmina under "poly romances". It's not true for Ruby, but probably would piss players less if done this way? I'm not sure what to do. For me now the important thing is to clearly tell players what to expect.

Sigh I though I could resume working on Undead Lily this week, but this thing is delaying me too much



edit: OK maybe I will just list them as they are:

3 otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair)

1 yuri romance (Ruby)

2 poly romances (Lynn & Cosmina)



Lynn it's not really poly romance (since it can end as yuri) but probably people will be less pissed this way

Yeah, this is what I was referring to - the game marketing page overcounts. I think it'd be more clear up-front like that. Technically there's that one route for Lynn that ends non-poly, but it's a 1/4 (and I don't know how many people pick Dark+ by default).

Yes you're absolutely right. The main issue is telling players clearly what there is in the game. I updated my game page now, hopefully is clear? I wrote:

- Three otome romances (Daniel, Bernard & Lair), one yuri romance (Ruby)

- And for the first time, two poly romances (Cosmina and Lynn)



I'm also going to add in the game the distinction when you are asked to choose which romances to enable/disable at beginning of adult age.

I approve this! ^_^

Yeah, this is what I was referring to - the game marketing page overcounts. I think it'd be more clear up-front like that. Technically there's that one route for Lynn that ends non-poly, but it's a 1/4 (and I don't know how many people pick Dark+ by default).

There's also only 1 route that ends in a poly relationship, since in both others Amber gets dumped. However, there are probably more people who'll pick the light+ route first, that's true.



So since Lynn is half-yuri, half-poly for the routes that are successful, I'm not sure straight out describing it as a poly romance is more honest that describing it as a yuri one.

Having peeked at the CG pics before playing the game, I have to say that I had initially assumed that Cosmina light was a yuri ending based on the CG. I'm saddened to hear that you can't have a romance with Cosmina without also being involved with Reed. I will comment further once I've played through the game a few times.

Today reviewed the texts and spoke with Forsaken who raised some good points.

for Cosmina/Reed

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This is more complex, since indeed it's a route not just about Cosmina, but about Cosmina AND Reed. The blog post introduced both of them for that reason too.

I think the biggest problem is that how was planned it would be hard to change, since if you played it, they have sex even before the ending for all possible choices, and in the next scenes they always talk happily ALL of them.

So I am not sure honestly at this point what to do. I need to put some warning for sure, maybe change Cosmina's portrait to have both Cosmina and Reed (this way should be more obvious). For Lynn is different as you read above.



I know I said I would do those changes, but today I reviewed Cosmina's route and that would really be a lot of work to make it "yuri only".

Show Spoiler

Would be weird to have them sleep all 3 together, and then at the end of the story have Amber reject only Reed for whatever reason And also think that Cosmina would be OK with that. Quite jarring and unrealistic.

I know it's a bit disappointing for yuri-only fans. On the other hand, remember what I said at the beginning of the thread: originally there was Ruby ONLY. And the storyboard/images were done years ago. Future yuri games won't have any of those issues, you can be sure of it.

Ok, I've now read through the Cosmina dialogues...



I think you're an awesome publisher Jack, but I believe this is your burn-out speaking here. You don't need to have Amber reject Reed at the end. Instead give the MC playing Amber an opportunity to make it clear to Cosmina in chapter 5 when Cosmina mentions that Reed would like to spend more time with Amber too that she is far more interested in Cosmina than Reed, and set a variable that puts her on either the existing Reed+Cosmina track, or on a new Cosmina-only track depending on that answer. Then make which of the two royals Amber goes on a date with in chapter 6 dependent on that variable instead of the currently rather arbitrary Cosmina05Dark. A second love scene that is Cosmina-only will need to be written in chapter 7, but Cosmina's behavior towards Amber in the existing threesome scene can be used as a basis to build around. So it doesn't need to be completely written from scratch. Chapter 8 requires only a pair of one line edits, one at the beginning (you only spent time with Cosmina in your bedroom, not Cosmina and Reed) and another at the ending of the scene (you gave passionate kisses to Cosmina, not "to them both"). Chapter 9 will require the banter/pda while travelling in Troll country looking for the Deathless Grey to be made dependent on which relationship track the MC is on, so that will require a bit of editing, but it's not unreasonable.



As for why Reed would step aside for Amber, Reed and Cosmina already mention that they made a bargain with their family that they could be married if no match was found for either of them within five years." Alas, if the MC is on the Cosmina-only track, then the match for him in Zoltar was already found. Furthermore he knows that unless Cosmina finds new love she's going to take his upcoming marriage very hard, so he's setting her up with Amber whom they both greatly like because Cosmina's happiness is extremely important to him and he doesn't want to see her suffer at his wedding. This should be explained in chapter 9, and I expect that Cosmina will express some guilt that she's enjoying herself so much with Amber in front of Reed, and Reed will gently and gracefully absolve her of her guilt, and then crack a joke about how hot it is too watch his two favorite women kiss. lol.



In chapter 10 the only change needed for the Cosmina-only track is for Amber at the end to think to herself about how much she looks forward to spending time with Cosmina instead of both Reed and Cosmina together. In CosminaFail, Reed's betrothal isn't anything new for the Cosmina-only track, but it's still time for him to leave, just as before. In CosminaEnd, instead of asking the King if she can marry both Reed and Cosmina as her reward during the Dark and Light+ endings, she'll ask if she can marry Cosmina. In the dark ending the King will tell her that she can't marry Cosmina, instead of both Cosmina and Reed, and in the Light+ ending she'll get to marry Cosmina instead of Reed publicly, with no following private ceremony. The lines containing intimacy with Reed at the end of the Light+ ending for the Cosmina-only track will need to be removed and replaced with two or three lines about Reed wishing Amber and Cosmina well before inviting them to his own wedding in Zoltar.





Anyways, For what it's worth, the above is how I'd recommend integrating a yuri romance for Cosmina within the existing story. The most significant changes for the Cosmina-only track would be a new Cosmina-only love scene in chapter 7 and track-dependent pda/banter edits in chapter 9. The rest is just book-keeping.













.

For sure I'm burned out

However, I also got some private messages/emails/feedback (some people are lazy or don't want to talk in forum for some reasons) and many are happy about the poly endings. Quoting a few:

...In summary, all I really wanted to say is: thank you for making a game with poly-amorous route. I think your mistake was to not clearly label Cosmina (and Lynn even if that one is more tricky because you can still get a yuri ending) as poly-only routes when you announced the game.

Personally: I think it's great that you had this kind of romances, I consider us a minority, very under-represented in games, even more than gay/lesbian people. I feel sorry for yuri players but, anyway, it's not like there won't be plenty of yuri games out next. Like the nomads game in your patreon. Man, those "outfits" puts Loren's to shame. You know what I mean!

Etc etc. So, I think my main mistake was to not be upfront about the game contents but now I think it's fair if I have ONE game with some poly romances. As those users said, there are so many yuri games planned (none with threesomes/harem endings).

One thing I haven't done yet though, it's a poly romance with more women. I must do this too in a future game

The only reason I haven't spoken out is that I haven't played any of the poly routes. I understand that some people expecting yuri are disappointed, but I also think it's a great move to finally do some true poly routes in your games. I admit that I didn't expect them to come at the "cost" of true yuri routes, and I can see how that might be upsetting, but I really don't think (speakng as a yuri fan myself) that anyone's entitled to have the game "fixed" to their personal preference.

Yeah main issue was on my part for labeling them yuri, when it's clear that even the original/previous writer never intended them to be like that. I repeat myself again, but in future I'll be VERY careful to not make such mistakes (by mistake I mean labeling "wrong" a romance type, not that having poly route was a mistake in itself).



Also because I don't plan to get myself so burned out again in future

Well, I must say that I have played and concluded tge Cosmina and Reed path(all the 4 emdings)... I must say: it was beautiful.

I regret the way I mispoke about it. I had personal issues with it, but I played through those romances paths and found that they are emotional and equally profound as any other. As an Yuri player, I was disapointed that the romance was wrongly labed and was pissed, but to be fair, is not common to have an interesting game such as this.

What I meant to say is, while poly is not really my thing, I'm glad it was done and the story was beautiful, I hope to those that always wanted this in one of your games are happy, since it was really emotional.

While I would love to have a option to have a romance path(much like Lynn's) that would permit to have Cosmina to only be with Amber, is not like I can't imagine that this hasn't happened(fanfics are our friends right xD). I felt that the Cosmina and Reed path(together with Ruby's) was the most emotional romance.

Me right now:

http://www.cutenessoverflow.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kitten_smile-1611.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

Having read through the Cosmina/Reed first and then Ruby, I have to say that the Ruby romance scenes felt a bit short in comparison, with less than half the text of Cosmina/Reed. As for Cosmina/Reed, as much as I liked the depth of the romance, I didn't find it very believable that both of them would have been able to go over 4 years without a match after the bargain they made with their family. The odds that their family would find no matches for both of the royals, let alone one or the other, strikes me as non-existent.



The private wedding for the King's heir (ie. Cosmina) at the end, following Reed and Amber's public wedding, also made me shake my head. To make Cosmina the third wheel seemed highly disrespectful of Cosmina's station as the future ruler of Icesilia, and I couldn't believe that her father agreed to it in the light+ ending. It puts into question the legitimacy of the future queen's marriage and any children she produces while doing nothing to stop tongues from wagging. A double public wedding would have been better, and if that wasn't acceptable, then the public marriage should have been between Cosmina and Reed, with Amber marrying them privately, as the other two are of much higher station and more suitable public matches for each other. I don't see why her father the King was so short-sighted as to open up a huge can of worms regarding the legitimacy of the future Queen Regnant's marriage to Reed and Amber just to make things easier in the short term, unless he was intentionally making it easier for Cosmina to annul the marriage later after she grew tired of it.

I think you have a lot of points,I mean... MAYBE the initial idea(at least this os the vibe I've got by seing the romance cg art but I could be mistaken) was to make 4 endings. One where Amber get together with only Reed(Light Plus), other with both of them(MAYBE Light), other with only Cosmina(Dark) and one with no one(Dark Plus). However, since is a Poly romance, they decided to change, but still used the same CG's.



Now, let's talk about it story wise...

Show Spoiler

I think the king(I wish I knew their names so i can make a proper fanfic, but whatever)let Amber to marry both of Reed and Cosmina out of pure amusement. He was too shocked with the fact that the Panacea actually worked to bother with the long consequences of this kind of marriage, and let's not forget that while Cosmina and Reed aren't directly related as a brother and sister, they probably are cousins(Since they are so alike, I would say first or second cousins); so depending on how the kindow views this kind of relation, it might be better to have a marriage between a Dark Elf and the prince than one between two cousins. After all, in the middle ages, this kind of thing was pretty common between most of the royalty, with a few exceptions to the rules.

Regardless, what matters is, he might have thought that making the marriage between the prince and Amber not only he was paying the life debt that he owned to her, but also silencing his daughter and nephew insistent marriage request, giving another kind of gossip to the nobles to focus, giving a good image for Icesilia as a tolerant nation and lastly, giving the oportunity to call off whatever issues the prince and princess might have with Amber at a later date without any trouble.

Another thing, let's not forget that the marriages were between Amber and Reed(public marriage) and Reed and Cosmina. There never wasn't one between Cosmina and Amber, and the dialog in the party while they were dancing, Amber ask if it she really wanted to dance with her, since people might find it troublesome. I don't know how they see LGBT's in Aravorn in general, but there might be some prejudice there...

You mean a yuri/yaoi game in a place which is not LGBT friendly? I am not sure it's a good idea or if players would like that...

Of course I know that you didn't mean "seriously anti LGBT", but maybe like forbidden love stories and such. Still not sure that people might like it.

Well, it would be POLEMIC and quite a forbbidden story. I don't know about the others, but a story that the character was forced into marriage against their will(since the family suspected they were LGBT) and during the game, the player ended changing the laws of the nation so it become more tolerant(not only to LGBT'S, but to all minoritys and races). I think it would be bold, adult and serious, I thinks a lot of LGBT's would understand(since we live with a society that avoid even talking about it) and the fact the player would be responsible for changing an entire nation full of prejudice would give us hope that one day, the world will change like this.

I see, it's an interesting idea. But needs to be written and planned well or I think could backfire

Ok course! I suggest making a pool so others might vote on this. Maybe even talking with some LGBT players on the foruns to gather opinions