No all options are equal, we spent like 2 weeks to make sure every combo has same number of choices

No all options are equal, we spent like 2 weeks to make sure every combo has same number of choices

but if Selith was exclusive GxG, who was the BxG? i think Breza was always GxG and Lydia BxG, so in the begning it looks that there was one less BxG

im just asking out of curiosity

No all options are equal, we spent like 2 weeks to make sure every combo has same number of choices

but if Selith was exclusive GxG, who was the BxG? i think Breza was always GxG and Lydia BxG, so in the begning it looks that there was one less BxG

im just asking out of curiosity

Yes that is what Jack means, in the beginning planning stages, it wasn't equal and even, but then they spent like 2 weeks working out how to make all the options an equal number.

But remember this game won't be out until late 2014 if we're lucky. So it's just very early character planning that Jack is kind enough to share with us all like he does.

I'm just glad she's not BxG only, now that would of been tragic!

She's a demoness, they're "trysexual". I can't imagine her limited to just one gender......or.......species, for that matter.

Well, she did put my whole team under her spell that one time, but who's to say what her actual preferences are (except Aleema )? I kinda figured that being a succubus doesn't have to mean anything, orientation-wise, but I could be wrong. It's been known to happen .

But anyway, I'm just glad she turned out to be bi (or maybe pansexual would be a better term if what you think is true).

Now if there is a character in the game that might be inclined to volunteer for a menage-a-trois if the protagonist is already in a relationship, it would most likely be her.

Yes, but my Elenor is with Chambara . I don't think Chambara would take kindly to that (doesn't mean I'm not gonna try to flirt with someone, just to see what happens )

speaking of Jul...

http://i.imgur.com/za98bMN.jpg" style="max-width:100%">

a preview of a *detail* of a CG image of the game. Now you understand why could take more than 1 year to do all the art ?

p.s. there's also Jul in the sexy outfit version but is too sexy to post it ! but will be present in the game

In the end it's up to Jack and Aleema, and their vision of the character. So anything is possible. Nevertheless unless she was pretending during that encounter in the original game you mentioned, it certainly appeared that Jul not only has a sexual interest in both genders, but also in pretty much every character in the party.

That all depends on whether Chambara felt in control or not. Jul is very, very hot. And Chambara isn't the sort to be prejudiced against demons. I don't doubt Chambara is going to be attracted to her and want her for herself. So don't look at it simply as a matter of whether or not Chambara is willing to give a competitor a chance. She wouldn't. Chambara is much more likely to simply tell Elenor, her obedient slave, that she intends to take Jul as a lover, and if Elenor is good, Chambara may share her with Jul for a night or two as well. From Chambara's perspective Elenor is the one who will be surrendering even more of herself by allowing Chambara to take another lover, one who Chambara may choose to share with Elenor when she feels like it. For Chambara it would be a way for her to extend her control over Elenor, and given the way she appears to be wired, I'm fairly certain that would be a big turn on for her. So as long as Chambara feels totally in control, it's doable, but perhaps not in the way some players may prefer.

It IS the same artist. It would be very odd (and great, so I could hire them both!) if two artist had such similar styles!!

The only difference is that he was working in the traditional way in the first game, while now he uses a tablet. The colorist is different though, but not the lineart.

This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to romancing her in the sequel. I think it'll be very interesting to see how she deals with Elenor and the growing attraction between them. I mean, this is a woman who is probably used to being despised just for being who she is (demoness), but who also knows she can make people want her with only a mental effort. She has so much power at her fingertips, but if she uses it, anything she'd gain wouldn't be real. And when something real starts blossoming between her and Elenor, it's bound to make her a bit nervous. Add to that the fact that she already put her spell over Elenor in the first game and the possible guilt it might trigger...This might be a gold mine for character development.

In the end it's up to Jack and Aleema, and their vision of the character. So anything is possible. Nevertheless unless she was pretending during that encounter in the original game you mentioned, it certainly appeared that Jul not only has a sexual interest in both genders, but also in pretty much every character in the party.

Well personally, I didn't see that encounter in this light at all. Admittedly, it's been a while since I last played the game, so I might be way off, but I remember the incident as Jul extending her succubusy power over the whole team just to make sure they were incapacitated and not a threat anymore. It's her greatest skill (although she's not a slouch in battle either). Walking around them and touching them to make sure the seduction was deep and complete, that they were under her power. In other words, it was about fulfilling orders and about the team's attraction to her, not the other way around. Not about any particular desire on Jul's side to sleep with any of them (or all of them), although she might not have kicked some of them out of her bed later :D. I think she'd do exactly the same thing if our team consisted of horribly unatractive creatures.

This is one of the reasons I'm looking forward to romancing her in the sequel. I think it'll be very interesting to see how she deals with Elenor and the growing attraction between them. I mean, this is a woman who is probably used to being despised just for being who she is (demoness), but who also knows she can make people want her with only a mental effort. She has so much power at her fingertips, but if she uses it, anything she'd gain wouldn't be real. And when something real starts blossoming between her and Elenor, it's bound to make her a bit nervous. Add to that the fact that she already put her spell over Elenor in the first game and the possible guilt it might trigger...This might be a gold mine for character development.

That all depends on whether Chambara felt in control or not. Jul is very, very hot. And Chambara isn't the sort to be prejudiced against demons. I don't doubt Chambara is going to be attracted to her and want her for herself. So don't look at it simply as a matter of whether or not Chambara is willing to give a competitor a chance. She wouldn't. Chambara is much more likely to simply tell Elenor, her obedient slave, that she intends to take Jul as a lover, and if Elenor is good, Chambara may share her with Jul for a night or two as well. From Chambara's perspective Elenor is the one who will be surrendering even more of herself by allowing Chambara to take another lover, one who Chambara may choose to share with Elenor when she feels like it. For Chambara it would be a way for her to extend her control over Elenor, and given the way she appears to be wired, I'm fairly certain that would be a big turn on for her. So as long as Chambara feels totally in control, it's doable, but perhaps not in the way some players may prefer.

Again, we seem to see Chambara completely differently. And the extent of Elenor's submissiveness. I think you see them more as a slave/mistress type of relationship, and I see them more as a dom/sub. Sexually at least, because my Elenor isn't submissive at all outside of the bedroom. But even in the slave/mistress dynamic, Elenor's feelings about inviting someone else into their bed would be important, as important as Chambara's. They wouldn't be just dismissed or not even considered like you say. Then the dynamic switches to abusive.

And while I think Chambara might be attracted to Jul (she is very, very hot like you said), I don't see her ever sharing Elenor with anyone. She spent half of the game being jealous about Elenor's connection with Loren and I haven't flirted with the Princess once. And when I did, Chambara made sure to voice her displeasure(in her own way).

I wouldn't be surprised if Jul found horribly unattractive creatures attractive too, like the way a lot of people consider bulldogs adorable. So that in itself wouldn't mean anything.

Demons tend to be perverse, they're demons after all.

While your alternate explanation is plausible, there isn't yet enough evidence to decide one way or another with any real certainty. So there is room for debate. Allow me to further add that just because I see it as likely that physical appearance or form isn't a strong factor in determining her interest in sleeping with someone, doesn't mean I believe she has no standards at all.

Given her powers, I don't think she's had to deal with being despised all that much during her, what is very likely, centuries of existence. She's far more likely to have dealt with humans from a position of power and control, wrapping countless men and women around her pinky whenever she desired. And given her tendency to treat other people as toys, I'm not inclined to think she cares whether or not anything meets your definition of real as long as she gets what she wants.

Enchanting someone into loving you from a demon's perspective is much more reliable and easily maintained over the years than trying to convince them to love you and then hoping they never fall out of love with you.

Real gold obtained through magic is just as real and requires much less effort than obtaining that same real gold without magic. Her views may evolve in Loren 2 however as she appears to become something of a prisoner.

Sorry, but I see Elenor's personality as naturally somewhat submissive even outside of the bedroom. Even when she's standing up for a cause that she feels is important, she's all too often neglecting her own best interest while looking out for someone else's well-being which she treats as more important than her own. I'm not by any means suggesting that this sort of relationship should be forced on an unwilling Elenor however. I think Elenor should have the right to protest, and that if she did, Chambara would let it go. Another possibility would be to give Elenor the chance to offer up the possibility of a threesome with Jul that centers around Chambara's pleasure as a kind of gift, and if she doesn't, then it never happens.

Not the same thing. Chambara had no control over Elenor's relationship with Loren, worse, Elenor was legally Loren's slave, when Chambara wanted Elenor for herself. So of course Chambara was going to be jealous of Loren's claim on Elenor -and- Elenor's acceptance of that claim. The fact that Loren didn't take advantage of it was secondary to the fact that if Loren had snapped her fingers and demanded it, she could bed Elenor at any time. As I said previously, control is very important to Chambara.

There are D/s relationships which are completely monogamous as appears to be your personal preference, there are D/s relationships where the dominant partner may take lovers while the submissive partner must remain exclusive, there are D/s relationships where the dominant partner may not only take lovers, but may decide to include their submissive partner in the bedroom play with their lover, who may or may not also be submissive, and there are D/s relationships in which a third partner is taken on as part of a triad, ie. where everyone has a commitment to everyone else. These are not the only possible arrangements, but they seem to be some of the more common ones in a D/s context.

Given what we know so far of Chambara, she has to be the most dominant partner of the arrangement to feel comfortable with it. Furthermore she is not likely to tolerate any competition for Elenor. That doesn't mean Chambara wouldn't enjoy having the hands and lips of both Elenor and Jul on her at the same time. So I see it as very possible as long as Chambara feels in complete control of the menage-a-trois, which very likely means that she's going to be the center of the V unless -she- is in the mood to change things up.

Demons tend to be perverse, they're demons after all.

This is really problematic. I'm not sure you can say all demons are whatever, the same way you can't say all women are like this or all blonde people are like that. Especially not for Jul, if we want to look at her as a character and not a caricature without agency. Plus, I think this point will be the plot of Loren 2 actually :D, that demons are not the way we viewed them till now.

While your alternate explanation is plausible, there isn't yet enough evidence to decide one way or another with any real certainty. So there is room for debate. Allow me to further add that just because I see it as likely that physical appearance or form isn't a strong factor in determining her interest in sleeping with someone, doesn't mean I believe she has no standards at all.

Yes, thank you. Just because she's pansexual doesn't mean Jul has to be attracted to even a single member of the party, let alone all of them. It just increases the likelihood of some chemistry happening.

And I also agree we can't be sure about what really happened in this instance because we don't know much about Jul yet, but I think that debating is really interesting - seeing how very differently other people read the same scene.

Given her powers, I don't think she's had to deal with being despised all that much during her, what is very likely, centuries of existence. She's far more likely to have dealt with humans from a position of power and control, wrapping countless men and women around her pinky whenever she desired. And given her tendency to treat other people as toys, I'm not inclined to think she cares whether or not anything meets your definition of real as long as she gets what she wants.

Yes she has power over humans, but she must know that it's all smoke and mirrors, even when they're under her thumb, catering to her whims. If she didn't use it, she would be despised and ostracized, just on the basis of what she is.

As we've seen with both the humans and elves - demons are absolutely hated, creatures to be killed on sight and with a succubus it is probably even worse, because they know that she can manipulate their minds. I mean, Chambara is hunted for what she does and she is a human who only dabbles in the dark arts. To the races of the Loren universe, the demons are evil personified.

And if you're right about her age (which I'm not sure you are), Jul has had a long time to get used to the idea that she can't be anything different, because no one would let her. If we assume that demons are indeed not all the same - born evil and that's it ( and I don't think they are), there must have been a time when Jul wondered about her position in the world. We don't know for how long she's been under Fost's boot or how she came to be there, but she is not in charge of her life.

And even if she could run away from Fost, she can't hide her tail and wings and see what it's like to live any other way.

So by the time we meet her, I think she has internalized all that crap that's been thrown her way. I think she might feel trapped and alienated, but tries to fight against the idea. She convinces herself that she is a demon, after all, so she must be like all the others.

She uses her power freely, even has fun with it , but she still must know that her triumph is hollow. And it is definitely hollow because she stays in the exact same place. At least until she's freed from Fost (of coirse that's when our team finds her)

Enchanting someone into loving you from a demon's perspective is much more reliable and easily maintained over the years than trying to convince them to love you and then hoping they never fall out of love with you.

Enchanting someone into loving you would certainly be more reliable and easier to maintain, but it's also so inferior to having a real connection that I'm not sure why it would be even considered, unless it's the only way- which, for Jul, it might very well have been.

Real gold obtained through magic is just as real and requires much less effort than obtaining that same real gold without magic. Her views may evolve in Loren 2 however as she appears to become something of a prisoner.

False comparison. Even if you accept equating human companionship (or elven, or dwarven) with a material possession, it still isn't true, putting aside the consent issues.

It would be more like if Jul wanted gold (companionship, sex, relationship), but no one would trade with her because she's a demon, so she magicked gold out of mud, only it was far less shiny and brown (because when she enchants someone, they completely lose themselves and become slaves to her will.) Not what she wanted at all.

And this is not just 'my definition of real', like you said. The idea that a bond that evolves freely and without coercion by magic is somehow of the same value as the one that happens only because a demoness willed it into existence...Well, that's completely alien to me.

And if Jul trully wanted a connection with another being, but didnt know any other way than to use her powers - then that's a truly devastating thought.

Sorry, but I see Elenor's personality as naturally somewhat submissive even outside of the bedroom. Even when she's standing up for a cause that she feels is important, she's all too often neglecting her own best interest while looking out for someone else's well-being which she treats as more important than her own. I'm not by any means suggesting that this sort of relationship should be forced on an unwilling Elenor however. I think Elenor should have the right to protest, and that if she did, Chambara would let it go. Another possibility would be to give Elenor the chance to offer up the possibility of a threesome with Jul that centers around Chambara's pleasure as a kind of gift, and if she doesn't, then it never happens.

I strongly disagree with this. Obeying orders from your Queen isn't a sign of submissivness, and neither is putting the welfare of others before your own, especially in the face of a demon invasion. It's not weakness to put aside your personal interest, it's strength. To stay because others need you. More on this below, because it ties to my thoughts about Chambara.

Not the same thing. Chambara had no control over Elenor's relationship with Loren, worse, Elenor was legally Loren's slave, when Chambara wanted Elenor for herself. So of course Chambara was going to be jealous of Loren's claim on Elenor -and- Elenor's acceptance of that claim. The fact that Loren didn't take advantage of it was secondary to the fact that if Loren had snapped her fingers and demanded it, she could bed Elenor at any time. As I said previously, control is very important to Chambara.

Uh. Why should Chambara have any control over Elenor's relationship with others? She shouldn't have control over Elenor's relationship with Chambara herself! This is not what a D/s relationship is about. And I didn't read it like that in the game at all.

But I do agree that Chambara would be jealous of Elenor's acceptance of being Loren's slave (especially after Elenor refuses to switch mistresses and gets insulted by Chambara seeing her as a simple slave). And I definitely agree that Chambara has a very strong need to control.

It's no surprise, if you look at her childhood - an orphan left at the magic academy where she almost got killed by the people who were supposed to protect her. And for what - for doing something they didn't understand or were afraid of. In her mind, I think she feels she has to control everything so that she won't be left to the mercy of others (and their lesser minds) ever again.

Also, I can see a few paralels between her and Jul here - alienation and a sense of otherness, coupled with an underlying anger.

So she moves away as far from everyone as she can (her own little kingdom in the swamp), she has a few flings all on her terms and tells herself she doesn't need anything more.

And when she does meet Elenor, she tries to make her her own in the only way she knows how.

But I don't think she ever succeeds. Or at least, not in the way she planned to.

And it turns out better in the end, because Chambara isn't attracted to Elenor's submissiveness, or at least not completely, she is attracted to her strength.

She even says something along the lines of (can't remember the exact quote): "I can't stop myself from being drawn to someone like you."

Because she's never met someone like Elenor, who effortlessly does the right thing all the time and who doesn't see her only as a dark witch but as a person.

Someone she can rely on to watch her back, in battle and out of it. Also you'll notice that when she finds out Elenor has dark magic, superior to her own even, Chambara's first instinct is to help her learn, not enter a power struggle - the evidence that she's grown.

And after when they consumate their relationship, Chambara may be the dom, but that doesn't mean she has the absolute control, because she learned that she has to let go of some of her own. She let Elenor inside, shared more of herself than with anyone, and later she even relinquishes her fortress when they start living together.

There are D/s relationships which are completely monogamous as appears to be your personal preference, there are D/s relationships where the dominant partner may take lovers while the submissive partner must remain exclusive, there are D/s relationships where the dominant partner may not only take lovers, but may decide to include their submissive partner in the bedroom play with their lover, who may or may not also be submissive, and there are D/s relationships in which a third partner is taken on as part of a triad, ie. where everyone has a commitment to everyone else. These are not the only possible arrangements, but they seem to be some of the more common ones in a D/s context.

Yes, I'm aware.

And while monogamy is indeed my preference, I don't think I'm blind to the other options. Are they a possibility? Yes, but I haven't seen any indication of them in this game.

Given what we know so far of Chambara, she has to be the most dominant partner of the arrangement to feel comfortable with it. Furthermore she is not likely to tolerate any competition for Elenor. That doesn't mean Chambara wouldn't enjoy having the hands and lips of both Elenor and Jul on her at the same time. So I see it as very possible as long as Chambara feels in complete control of the menage-a-trois, which very likely means that she's going to be the center of the V unless -she- is in the mood to change things up.

Maybe Chambara is indeed a pure dom (it seems the most likely as it stands now, although I can see her switch here and there if she becomes more comfortable with Elenor), but we have seen anything so far about her being into threesomes or moresomes. I suppose you could headcanon it that way, if you wanted, though. I certainly have a pretty detailed headcanon of my own, as you can see above.

I want to put my thoughts into the matter, but then it might spoil the game. I will say that Jul is older than she looks and has a back story to tell. Also, demons are inherently dangerous in that they consume life. It's similar to how sex feels to us - we need to do it in order to survive, so it feels good, as to encourage it. Demons illicit a similar pleasure in killing, because that is what their existence is meant for. But just as we can abstain from sex, there can be the control to not kill.



There are only a few demons that find pleasure in sex at all (since they do not all copulate), but the succubi/inncubi are one of them. What they find pleasurable about sex, however, is a bit different from us, since they seem hard-wired to use it as a tool. I'll save the rest of my commentary for exploration in game.

This is the demonic version of the old nature vs nurture question. Are demons born evil? Or are they just raised to be evil? If it's the latter then there is certainly room for redemption. And even if they are generally born evil, there may be room for a handful of exceptions. That said, if all demons from the day of birth have to face murderous urges that are at least as powerful as the ones Mesphit faced, that would suggest that any exceptions for full blooded demons would be very, very rare.

I'm not convinced of this. She wasn't born human, and to an alien creature human emotion would just as likely seem fickle and illusory as real and enduring.



Jul is not Chambara. Chambara is still human, and has completely human emotions.

Again there is a lot we don't know yet, but I doubt that Jul starts out as "nice deep down but hiding it" the way Chambara did. Given what has been revealed to us regarding Jul so far, I'm fairly certain she's going to start out with some strongly evil inclinations that may change over time if our protagonist chooses to invest significant amounts of time into salvaging her. I expect that like an adult feral cat who a caring person takes into their home, she's going to do quite a bit of damage and destruction in the interim to everything around her if the protagonist isn't extremely careful.

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the gist of your argument seems to be that like vampires these days, demons are just another misunderstood and persecuted minority. They're just people with cool powers and slightly different dietary requirements. Treat them with love and many of them will become loving beings.

I think it very likely that Jul needs to see such a connection in action over an extended period of time before she'll realize it's something solid that she wants for herself enough to try and change her behavior. I strongly suspect that this won't happen until she becomes the protagonist's prisoner in Loren 2 and has the opportunity to observe party interactions for awhile. At least this is how I'd probably approach writing it were the task mine. I grant that it's not the only possibility however, and Aleema may well decide to go with something else.

... most especially if those "orders" you're "obeying" aren't orders you'd follow if you were given a choice.

And I strongly reject the perception that submission=weakness.

It doesn't matter if the submission has a sexual component or not. It's still submission.

Chambara's words and actions made it pretty clear that she wished she were Elenor's owner instead of Loren, especially once she realized that Elenor accepted that ownership. As for why Chambara would have control over her relationship with Elenor, that's pretty easy, because Elenor -can- give her that control. That's what submission is about. Surrendering control.

In a lot of fantasy worlds demons are alien creatures from a very different world or dimension that are quick to anger. That is not how I see Chambara at all, even if Chambara does feel alienated from other humans due to her magic, and is highly skittish because she's constantly being threatened by hunters seeking to end her life.

I somewhat disagree here. My take on Chambara is that she fears being vulnerable or even expressing vulnerability. It's not that it's the only way she knows how to have a relationship so much as the only way she feels safe inside of a relationship. Let's face it, a new relationship involves strong emotions and a loss of control over one's feelings. Chambara is going to feel extremely vulnerable and she no doubt finds this both highly threatening and very scary.

On the contrary, I think Chambara succeeds exactly the way she planned. Why do you think she doesn't?

I don't consider submissiveness and strength to be mutually exclusive, and I am inclined to believe that Chambara was attracted to both Elenor's strength and her submissiveness. Winning the submission of someone who is weak isn't as enticing as winning the submission of someone who is strong.

Chambara's dominance may or may not exist outside of a sexual context. If it does exist outside of a sexual context, then she's learned from hard experience that the world isn't going to allow a black witch any temporal power so it's pointless for her to pursue power aside from her magic, which is fairly potent in and of itself. Chambara is most definitely a control-freak who fears being vulnerable however. My take on her is that she needs to be in complete control of herself, and as an extension because romantic relationships result in a loss of personal control, also in control of her romantic partner. In addition, she finds Elenor's willingness to surrender to her and be vulnerable a tremendous turn-on.

Due to a single sentence in the epilogue, there is reason to believe that Chambara will relax her guard over the years and that eventually the relationship will become more equal as Chambara feels increasingly secure with it. Deep down Chambara clearly loves Elenor and being in charge all of the time is a lot of work. So I see her valuing Elenor's input and granting Elenor more and more free agency as the years go by and her fears slowly fade. Eventually she may even allow Elenor to be on top on occasion. I don't believe that will happen quickly however. It's going to take years of dedicated submission from Elenor to bring that about.