Has anyone killed the giant spider in 0.8.5 nightmare?



I mean, has anyone had the whole party take two actions each before dying? Because three spiders spamming paralysis is a creative challenge to overcome.

When you write 0.8.5 I suppose you mean 0.8.6c (the latest version) right?

Yeah, my mind never registered when 0.8.6 happened apparently



I can't say exactly what I find wrong about it anymore... made some progress, but still don't see myself winning.

DIE!!!!!!!!!111oneone



I managed to win... but let me say this. I haven't been able to beat Mormont or the spider without putting my ranger in the back row. That should be a concern



Now keep your fingers crossed for me getting the cub in the time I have left.

Maybe increasing the rewards a bit?

The giant spider is totally a she - only cruel queens are that hard to overcome ("She's a harsh mistress, but eventually I got her heart" [quite literally]). Not sure if this combat is still normal difficulty, but one über-boss per chapter feels right.

I'm gonna share my recipe for success for current nightmare mode. Would be very interested to hear in anyone doing well with a different method. I did "okay" with a more conventional strategy but I had to leave a lot of spawns untouched and I had no chance of killing the giant spider. After I completed that game I built a party around this tactic and did 7 quests in chapter one again; the previous playthrough was 4 in chapter one and 4 in chapter three.



Okay so here goes. There's pros and cons to each twin combo. I think hunter/druid is probably the best but if I can improvise my way to this tactic with ranger/hunter and succeed then I'm sure it can be done with any combo if you aim for it from square one.



This method takes advantage of the fact that the party is small so you can have just one guy in the frontline (so it won't work later on) and most encounters (animals, bandits for most part) can only hit your frontline. And that guy will be Vaelis. You activate Avoidance and then you spam Defend. The twins do the killing from the back row. If you pimp out Vaelis well (with defense and HP regen) he does not need to be healed often. I mean, less than once per fight. If you are doing really well Vaelis might run out of mana before his healer does (I'm talking about many battles in a row now), at which point you can swap in the tankiest of the twins to the front row and have them hold the line while Vaelis activates Recover and dances in the back row.



I can get more specific if need be... anyway, with this I could largely lick the map clean as I like to say, although quest encounters required a well prepared party and some experimentation. Mormont was particularly painful and I know I can just press restart until the mage and the archer use normal attacks instead of a row nuke and a Pinning Shot, but in this and the previous playthrough I decided to beat them the hard way. Although I did hit restart if the row nukes left a debuff.



Observation: If polearms have a 25% damage penalty if used from the back row, then they are pretty much bows in that regard, because a melee attack has 25% less delay than a normal shot too. But I'll bet polearms will do more damage than bows

Another thing Jack. I'm afraid of encouraging you to tinker with nightmare numbers now, but maybe for future bosses with few or no minions you could bear this in mind. As a player I don't feel powerful if I'm hitting the boss for less than I hit everything else for. It feels like I win because I'm stubborn. I would like it if bosses had even more health (to compensate) but lower defenses than they have now. I might win in exactly as many turns but I would be doing it to the tune of lovelier numbers.

Yes sounds a good change, will do that for single-bosses in future

Wolves still like to use Defend. They also like to buff spiders with Berserk. Not uncommon to see 9-10 duration of that on the spider and 0 on the wolves.



In other news, I actually managed to beat Mormont without nuking his mage \o/ that was a first... and only because I had to

Finishing with 8/8 quests and no pelt stealing in version 0.87c in NM-mode with Druid/Ranger was possible, after all. I thought I wasn't cut out for it, and I was on the brink of giving up and sticking with Hard-mode for challenge in the future......



I managed to beat the spider with healer-druid(equipped with ice spike) /aggressive ranger & Vaelis, with relatively high SP-pools. This required hitting the restart-button, until the Big Bug started with Bite-attack and not poison. I used bleeding attacks from Vaelis on all three of them whenever I could: it helped the little guys go down relatively fast, Bramble coat on ranger and Druid was hitting Eagle's Grace and Purify. A LOT of re-tries were required for this one... Oh, but the money one gets by selling the poison glands!



Afterwards, the undead.... The fun thing about squishing the Spider before Mormont is that after that annoying bug, Mormont feels a bit easier. Plus, I had money for better equipment at this point. First three turns were given to the undead, I got the next three. After several failed strategies aiming at the mage & ranger, I decided go to straight for Mormont's head. And he went down with one attack from each party member: Ice Nuke followed by Strike Through, that staggered him nice and easy and then Leaping Strike from Vaelis. That was pretty much it. The others went down quite nicely after that. Of course, I needed to be lucky for the archer not to pin the druid down first, for the trio to be able to give those 3 swings.



I quite like the current NM-mode. It gives me quite the headache, but it's still doable, provided that the skills and attributes are chosen carefully (and maybe even classes, who knows what is required to beat the upcoming Acts in NM-mode). With no pelt-stealing, I had to go after spiders to get some money. The balance between spending it on better equipment and having to flush it down at the bar for healing was tricky, though.

The biggest problem while playin NM is that until you get Krimm, you have Vaelis as the only tank unless you picked a Ranger. So that causes a bit of issues. After Krimm joins the party things are more normal since you have at least two tanks now But that happens only later in act2.

@fabulaparva: Nice to see NM completed with an aggressive setup did you manage to reach level 7 too?



Also... I'm not gonna ask "how is the stagger threshold calculated", but I will ask how to increase it other than getting more strength. I'm concerned about how easily staggered my druid is. Lower magic means smaller nukes

Threshold is based on the class (so the druid has lower amount than a fighter) and also increased by armor items you're wearing. I probably need to increase it a bit though for the mage items since might be a bit low right now. Will do that on next update but in general the mages should be more easily staggered than other fighters (rock/paper/scissor mechanics).

@fabulaparva: Nice to see NM completed with an aggressive setup did you manage to reach level 7 too?

Unfortunately not, I got only to level 6. I couldn't get any proper anti-fire equipment early enough to beat the ratmen (I don't have the patience for the mousewheel-bingo to reload shops -- having to spam the restart-button at the Spider fight was enough), so I missed all those possible training fights in Chapter 1. And then in Chapter 3, I still had the Bug to squish and Mormont to un-friend... Plus having to save most of the money from random fights (no stealing) for better equipment and little left to spend in the pub coupled with no time to rest at home.... Excuses, excuses, I know, but yeah, I was missing on XP.



EDIT: It was an aggressive but fragile setup... I tried how investing on SP, Attack & Speed would work.

Nah don't spend time on that now. It probably works well with the RPS idea too. Just annoyed when I can't gib an enemy mage because he was faster and staggered my druid. Kinda funny he managed to do that though when he couldn't even do 20 damage

I couldn't get any proper anti-fire equipment early enough to beat the ratmen

I've never done that :D but you can reduce the mage's damage with a good formation. His spells will hit a target +adjacent targets. So if you don't use the middle slots he will always hit only one guy. Won't save you vs. Mormont though... need a different trick there.

I probably need to increase it a bit though for the mage items since might be a bit low right now.

my last finished game (admittedly 0.8.7c) ended with druid 5 % / ranger 24 % / Vaelis 30 % - and this feels about right for weakish magician compared to steroids-filled grunt

I've never done that :D but you can reduce the mage's damage with a good formation. His spells will hit a target +adjacent targets. So if you don't use the middle slots he will always hit only one guy. Won't save you vs. Mormont though... need a different trick there.

Thanks for the tip, I definitely need to experiment more with strategies to beat the ratmen. It doesn't help my concentration, though, that I often start laughing upon seeing the rats in their dresses. Especially the bride-looking healer in white, I keep wondering who is (s)he going to marry.

WHATTTTTT ratmen are fearsome opponents!!!

about stagger threshold: Is it possible that the threshold value of items is not displayed in the inventory? (or I'm blind, wouldn't be the first time - I didn't realize that rings can have regen because the attribute list was sorted in a different way compared to weapons and I overlooked SPRegen and HPRegen for many many versions...)