Winter Wolves - Bionic Heart - Bionic Heart 2

jack1974 Apr 16, 2012

So yesterday had a moment of free time after Loren beta and amongst the other things, I started prototyping an idea I had for Bionic Heart 2, but I'm not sure is worth pursuing it, so I'd like some feedback :mrgreen:

I made a PC/Mac/Linux demo here:

http://www.winterwolves.net/games/BH2.zip

remember is just a prototype. I had some texts written by a good new writer I found, but some were added by me

So in practice how it works? The dialogue is RPG-style, with 4 base skills showed on top.

The skill level influence the amount of point you get when you pick a related answer. With each character you talk with, you'll have the possibility to see his "traits" which should suggest which are the right choices, and a "goal" to reach expressed in percentage. The game will go on differently if you reach the goal in each scene or not, but you don't get a "game over" screen (only in the prototype right now).

On bottom on the left there are "basic" choices, not related to any skill. On the right instead there are only skill related choices. The basic choices can have positive/negative effect but usually small changes, while the skill one have bigger changes.

The answers are colored based on the skill they refer to. For example, the first choice: "Tell him you're happy to be alone with him" is related to seduce skill, while "Tell him you're dangerous" to Intimidate skill and so on.

Now I'm not sure if to go on with this, because honestly is MUCH MUCH harder to make than a simple VN like the previous one. I liked the idea, but now that I implemented it, I realized what insane task it is, and after Loren I need something a bit more relaxing :mrgreen:

So unless I get 100 replies saying "this is an awesome idea" I'm thinking to just make the sequel like the first one, or maybe adding some dating/life sim gameplay element.

fleetp Apr 16, 2012

Awesome idea, but I'd probably buy BH2 just for Tanya.

jack1974 Apr 16, 2012

lol yes, I guessed for you was a no-brainer in any case :lol:

thanks

abnaxus Apr 16, 2012

I will give this a try.

As for Tanya, what made her half as cool to me was her voice-over. I really liked her voice. Hopefully she'll have same voice for sequel. :oops:

jack1974 Apr 16, 2012

Heh no, lost contacts with that person. However, while I don't know for sure, I think I could get Chambara's voice actress to voice her (check the battle voices video on my youtube channel to "hear" what I mean :mrgreen:

).

abnaxus Apr 16, 2012

I've tried the demo and I like the new system a lot.

I think, though, that also in the full game you should get a "game over" if you fail, rather than the game continuing (otherwise, I think there is not much point to it if the game just continues). Rather than use this new dialogue system for every conversation, I would save them for certain parts of the story where the character is in danger, imprisoned, trapped, held at gunpoint, etc. like a kind of "boss fight".

The game Deus Ex: Human Revolution actually had "social bossfights" like this, and I liked them a lot in that game as well.

jack1974 Apr 16, 2012

Thanks for the feedback.

Indeed that was the main problem for me. If I allowed the player to go on even if you fail the scene, wasn't making any sense to do the scene at all :mrgreen:

I might follow your suggestion, and make the scene only for the "boss fights". I am thinking also to remove the skills, since it is too easy if you know that a question is associated with a skill

it should all based on players decisions.

But making the whole game based on this probably was a bad idea since people who liked the 1st game played it with normal choices.

abnaxus Apr 16, 2012

I think for Tanya it makes sense that she is able to know information about the personality of the person she interacts with (brave - honest, etc.) and gauge how the person will react since she is a hyperadvanced robot.

But if the game has different characters to play with besides Tanya, I think these should not have these 'advantages'.

Maybe to compensate for Tanya having an easier time due to her being a robot, she should perhaps receive bigger penalty when she picks wrong option.

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

Yes I wanted the game to have multiple PoV: Tanya, Luke, Tom, Tina.

Was hoping to catch more female audience this time by offering the possibility to play as a woman too. Even if this game, like the first one, will have lot of fanservice :oops:

Aleema Apr 17, 2012

Heh, well, playing the demo, I certainly didn't feel like straight women were the target audience, if you know what I mean ... Nothing wrong with how it is, but let's just be real about who's getting the most satisfaction from it.

I liked the system, but I wonder how often it will come up. If it's every time you talk to someone: too much. But if it's social bosses, that's cool.

Rollback sorta kills it, though. Or at least, the immediate response of whether or not that was a good or bad choice. So it was easy for me to rollback and find all the right answers without thinking at all.

I don't envy whoever is writing this.

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

See, writing RPGs is not that bad after all! :lol:

And indeed, after playing it more I agree that using this at every branch of the game would have been overkill. I'll use it just on the "social bosses". About the target market I might ask for tips when I come to plan the female scenes so that there's some male fanservice too. Since now we can see Luke and he's good looking... and also Tom has more sex appeal I think :mrgreen:

X and Y Apr 17, 2012

Jack, I'm all for reaching more female audience! Personally, I don't think the first Bionic Heart was blatantly male-only. The female characters were very strong (both physically and otherwise) and quite appealing. I didn't feel marginalised as a female player of the game.

I do feel we could do with some GxG and BxB in Bionic Heart 2, though I'm not quite sure how that'd work out, but it'd certainly reach a broader demographic. Of course, Jack calls the final shots and I just do the writing (and the subtle nudging here and there), hahaha.

Some thoughts ... instead of just making social interactions the options that will impact the flow of the game, why not make other "selections" equally influential? By which I mean, if Character A chooses to, say, open Door A instead of Door B OR help Character B instead of Character C, something will happen? Uh, did I make sense?

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

Jack, I'm all for reaching more female audience! Personally, I don't think the first Bionic Heart was blatantly male-only. The female characters were very strong (both physically and otherwise) and quite appealing. I didn't feel marginalised as a female player of the game.

Well to be honest, is the game that was most popular amongst my female friends! So after thinking better about it probably the main reason was more that the writing was <coughs> still done by me :oops:

I do feel we could do with some GxG and BxB in Bionic Heart 2, though I'm not quite sure how that'd work out, but it'd certainly reach a broader demographic. Of course, Jack calls the final shots and I just do the writing (and the subtle nudging here and there), hahaha.

For GxG there won't be problems (Tanya & Helen or Tanya & Julia), but for BxB would be harder without introducing new characters, because in the first game all males were definitely straight, so would be a bit weird for them to change in the sequel :lol:

Some thoughts ... instead of just making social interactions the options that will impact the flow of the game, why not make other "selections" equally influential? By which I mean, if Character A chooses to, say, open Door A instead of Door B OR help Character B instead of Character C, something will happen? Uh, did I make sense?

I think I understood, but that would be a BIG amount of work I think! I think already making a game like the first one, with several different endings, was quite an achievement :mrgreen:

. Right now I'm more oriented to make a game with several choices that will end up revealing several different endings and "secrets" (as you know) and have some of those "social boss" scenes (I like the term haha) in key points of the plot. But I also agree that highlighting the options with the skill was making the minigame too simple, I think already having a "target description" with the various traits is good. Like you see "Honest" and you know you shouldn't pick questions related to bribing him with money or forcing him to do something illegal.

X and Y Apr 17, 2012

Hahaha, indeed. Well, I should hope that Bionic Heart 2 doesn't reach only male players. Fanservice is not a male-only domain, people! It's equal opportunity (I might get shot for saying this, but oh well).

Yes to TanyaXHelen! I still want to get Tina involved in a GXG pairing somehow. She didn't have such a big role in the first game, but she resonated much more strongly than any other character for me. That's a shame about the BXB: they tend to be more popular among females, don't they? Or am I mixing up my statistics?

We can definitely try to reword the selections so that people have an idea about what skills might be associated with each choice. After all, it's much the same in daily social interactions: you kind of navigate social waters at your own risks, correct? I don't think it's possible to shut down the rollback system, is it? As Aleema pointed out, the rollback does make it much easier to "cheat," but then again the selections are interactive enough that you'd have to rollback repeatedly to get at the correct "solution".

Aleema Apr 17, 2012

It is possible to shut down the rollback, but let's not go crazy and shut it completely down. Just block rollback after you make a choice, that should be good.

BxB is attractive to a lot of straight women, yes. Forced pairings of any situation aren't cool though (even though I find Cliff very attractive from Planet Stronghold game, I don't want to see him "ungay" himself just to become my boy toy), so if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

Hahaha, indeed. Well, I should hope that Bionic Heart 2 doesn't reach only male players. Fanservice is not a male-only domain, people! It's equal opportunity (I might get shot for saying this, but oh well).

Nah this forum is full of tolerant people, including myself :wink:

The main problem is that I don't want to force the plot trying to reach all tastes. As Aleema told me privately, there's nothing wrong in trying to make a male-oriented game. I mean for RPGs I think is better to try to please everyone, for visual novels or other genres, you can't always have bisexual or gay romances of all kinds. Last year I made several "female-oriented" games: Love & Order (even if had a bit of GxG was soft), Always Remember Me (pure otome) and Winter In Fairbrook (again pure otome).

Yes to TanyaXHelen! I still want to get Tina involved in a GXG pairing somehow. She didn't have such a big role in the first game, but she resonated much more strongly than any other character for me. That's a shame about the BXB: they tend to be more popular among females, don't they? Or am I mixing up my statistics?

I'm not sure about BxB but from what I know/heard I think so!

Tina GxG... I never thought about her like that, but to be honest all she did in first game was flirt with Robert, but she seemed pretty concerned about Tanya so might work :mrgreen:

We can definitely try to reword the selections so that people have an idea about what skills might be associated with each choice. After all, it's much the same in daily social interactions: you kind of navigate social waters at your own risks, correct? I don't think it's possible to shut down the rollback system, is it? As Aleema pointed out, the rollback does make it much easier to "cheat," but then again the selections are interactive enough that you'd have to rollback repeatedly to get at the correct "solution".

No you can block rollback if you want, indeed I plan to do it in the final game

I am thinking to remove the skills completely though, since I'd prefer the player to play as he/she wants - if player wants to be a sexy Tanya or a intimidating one, it should be all his own decisions I think.

Anyway: today if I have time will try to send you a new storyboard!

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

BxB is attractive to a lot of straight women, yes. Forced pairings of any situation aren't cool though (even though I find Cliff very attractive from Planet Stronghold game, I don't want to see him "ungay" himself just to become my boy toy), so if it doesn't work, it doesn't work.

Yes that's what I meant to say. Right now the only way to have a BxB would be by introducing a new character. Might do that of course, but have also to take into account artists times, since I still need to get all the main cast characters first! and as of now there are not even sketches of the romance CGs :oops:

so let's say first I want to get everything done for the main game and then can think about adding new stuff

abnaxus Apr 17, 2012

Just for reference, here's an example of a "social bossfight" in Deus Ex: Human Revolution. The main character of this game is kind of a 'bionic man' with augmentations that allow him to view the psychological profile of a person, along with personality type. He can also gauge how people react to his arguments. To win, he must pick the right dialogue options with the information he has about a person and get persuasion level up all the way (if everything fails, he can also release pheromones to persuade a person more forcefully).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdtGrddKqKI

The system in Bionic Heart 2 demo reminded me of it, it's just in 2D. I think it fits Tanya very well.

jack1974 Apr 17, 2012

Oh, I know that game well, I played it, even if I was stuck at first "boss fight" (I suck at action games!).

I'm going try to do what you suggested, have those boss fights only in key points of the game, but since the other characters are normal persons, I can't use the skill system or "special powers". Beside, I realized it could become a total pain to write/code :oops:

I'll use a goal-based system though (you need to reach 100%), and keep the traits, so you'll have to guess the right answer based on the target's traits, and each answer will reward you with a certain amount of points. There will be less strategy than it is now, but still there will be some, and probably won't be a too big change for people who were used to the first game system

anita Apr 17, 2012

I like the fact that yuou using new writers now. I mean, your game were already pretty good but with new writers, they gained that "something" extra they were missing.

Aleema is my favorite but even this bionic demo is well written? it's by X Y I take? you write well, especially sexy stuff! :wink: